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yes! we r back
Spell Speed EmptyThu Aug 16, 2012 4:19 am by kompella12
the best academy is back.... T.T been such a long time.... i will help as much as i can in improving this academy

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Spell Speed EmptyTue Mar 20, 2012 2:09 pm by Moonknight Xytix
I need everyone's Suggestion to Revive this academy again! just post here!

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Important:For all active members!
Spell Speed EmptyMon Mar 26, 2012 2:00 pm by Moonknight Xytix
For all active members!
I'll have a surprise for you!
but before I reveal it..
put the status how many days you're active here in the academy!

[days]/in a week
[hours]/in a day

Thank you!

~Moon


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PostSubject: Spell Speed   Spell Speed EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Spell Speed is the term when using cards to form a chain. There is a certain ruling for them to follow where certain cards are only allowed to chain. This ruling is somewhat like an order of cards which are:

Spell Speed 1
-The following are all Spell Speed 1:
-Normal/Field/Continuous/Equip & Ritual Spell Cards
-Flip/Ignition & Trigger Effect Monsters' effects.


Rulings:

-Spell Speed 1 cards can only be used in the Main Phase (1 or 2) unless stated
on the card itself (such as "Curse of Fiend") or are triggered by an event
(Trigger Effect and Flip Effect Monsters).

-Spell Speed 1 cards cannot be used to chain with.

-The only case in which Spell Speed 1 effects can be chained against each
other, is when they activate simultaneously.

Spell Speed 2
-The following are all Spell Speed 2:
-Quick-Play Spell Cards
-Normal & Continuous Trap Cards
-Quick Effects

Rulings:

-Spell Speed 2 cards can be used against Spell Speed 1 and other Spell Speed
2 cards, but not against Spell Speed 3 cards.

Spell Speed 3
-The only cards that are Spell Speed 3 are Counter Trap Cards.

Rulings:

-Spell Speed 3 cards can be used against Spell Speed 1, Spell Speed 2,
and other Spell Speed 3 cards. Spell Speed 3 cards can only be countered
with other Spell Speed 3 cards.

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PostSubject: Re: Spell Speed   Spell Speed EmptyFri Jan 06, 2012 8:41 pm

and it is from this that 90 percent of arguments stem
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PostSubject: Re: Spell Speed   Spell Speed EmptySat Jan 07, 2012 2:55 pm

Can you provide us with some examples please?
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PostSubject: The Unofficial Guide to the Summon Negation and Response Chains By Werepire   Spell Speed EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 1:50 pm

The Unofficial Guide to the Summon Negation and Response Chains
By Werepire



Despite being a relatively simple aspect of the game, the "Summon Response Chain" causes great confusion amongst many players. Unfortunately, despite being such a simple concept, it can be notoriously difficult to explain.

As a result, I apologise in advance about the length of this explaination, and in an effort to not overwhelm, I have broken it up into several separate points.

Given how difficult it is to explain the "Summon Response Chain" without using an example, for the purpose of this explaination, I will refer back to the following chain, which is a perfectly legal (if not complex, and somewhat unrealistic) example of the kinds of things you can see happen during a single "Summon Response Chain".

• Player A Summons "Blowback Dragon"
• Player A activates the effect of "Blowback Dragon" on priority.
• Player B chains "Bottomless Trap Hole"
• Player A chains "Interdimensional Matter Transporter" targeting "Blowback Dragon"
• Player B chains "Enemy Controller", Tributing "Sangan" as its cost and targets "Blowback Dragon"
• Player A chains "Book of Moon" Targeting "Blowback Dragon"
• Player B chains "Torrential Tribute"
• Player A does not respond
• Player B chains "Call of the Haunted" targeting "Sangan".

The Summon Negation & Summon Response Chains Explained
Player A Summons "Blowback Dragon".

This part is Self Explainatory, and is the Trigger which starts both of the chains below beginning with -

The Summon Negation Chain:
The moment Player A attempts to summon "Blowback Dragon" the "Timing Window" to activate a card(s) which will negate the Summon of a Monster opens.

This is in-fact a seperate chain independent of the Summon Response chain that, "technically" occurs before a monster is summoned, but after its intention to be summoned has been announced (and the card placed face-up on the field).

Since this chain happens before the monster is considered "summoned", anything which occurs in this chain has no impact on whether you can activate a card(s) effect during the "Summon Response Chain" which occurs after it.

While this chain has never been given any "official" or "unofficial" name, I will call it the "Summon Negation Chain" for the purposes of this explaination only.

While this was not shown in the above example, the "Summon Negation Chain" did resolve with the following two steps:

• Player A does not activate "Solemn Judgement" or similar card.
• Player B does not activate "Solemn Judgement" or similar card.

As neither player iniated this chain by activating a card with a "Summon Negation" effect, the game state progresses beyond this point, and the Timing Window to activate "Summon Negation" cards closes. IOWs, The "Summon Negation Chain" resolves without effect.

If the following had occured instead, the "Summon Response Chain" would still continue uninterrupted. This is due to the fact that this chain resolves before the monster is considered to have been "successfully summoned".

• Player A does not activate "Solemn Judgement" or a similar card.
• Player B activates "Forced Back".
• Player A activates "Seven Tools of the bandit".
• Player B does not respond
• Player A does not respond

This is due to the fact that "Seven Tools of the Bandit" will negate the effect of "Forced Back", and as a result, the monster will be summoned to the field, as indicated below.

There is only one chain allotted for negating the summon of a monster.

Also note that you cannot make moves like chaining Solemn Warning to Solemn Judgment; remember that negation must respond/be chained directly to the action or activation it wants to negate.

Chain Link 1 on this chain must always be an effect that negates the summon being performed. After that, any card/effect that has a correct Speed Spell and meets its activation requirments can be chained.

The Summon Response Chain Explained:

• Player A Summons "Blowback Dragon"
• Player A activates the effect of "Blowback Dragon" on priority.
• Player B chains "Bottomless Trap Hole"
• Player A chains "Interdimensional Matter Transporter" targeting "Blowback Dragon"
• Player B chains "Enemy Controller", Tributing "Sangan" as its cost and targets "Blowback Dragon"
• Player A chains "Book of Moon" Targeting "Blowback Dragon"
• Player B chains "Torrential Tribute"
• Player A does not respond
• Player B chains "Call of the Haunted" targeting "Sangan".

Providing the summoning of the monster is not negated during the "Summon Negation Chain", the monster is now considered to have been Summoned Successfully (as is the case in our example above).

At this point, the "Timing Window" to activate "Bottomless Trap Hole", "Torrential Tribute" (and all similar cards) opens (aka: the "Summon Response Chain" begins).

However, given the fact that no "Trigger Effects" are activated which use up the Turn Players Priority, Player A retains the right to activate the first card(s) effect on this chain, and does so as follows:

• Player A activates the effect of "Blowback Dragon" on priority.
Despite the fact that Player A has activated the effect of "Blowback dragon", the "Timing Window" in which "Bottomless Trap Hole", and "Torrential Tribute" remains open until both players stop responding to the monsters summon and allow the chain to resolve.
• Player B chains "Bottomless Trap Hole"
• Player A chains "Interdimensional Matter Transporter" targeting "Blowback Dragon"

At this point in the chain, Player A is attempting to cause the effect of "Bottomless Trap Hole" to disappear as "Blowback Dragon" would no longer be on the field when "Bottomless Trap Hole" resolves.

As a result, Player B chains "Enemy Controller" in an attempt to cause the effect of "Interdimensional Matter Transporter" to likewise disappear, as "Blowback Dragon" would then be on their opponents side of the field.

• Player B chains "Enemy Controller", Tributing "Sangan" as its cost and targets "Blowback Dragon"

This triggers the mandatory Trigger effect of "Sangan", which will activate, and start a new chain after the current chain has finished resolving (see Chain Resolution below).

Player A once again responds by attempting to flip "Blowback Dragon" face down with "Book of Moon" which would cause the effect of "Enemy Controller" to also vanish.

• Player A chains "Book of Moon" Targeting "Blowback Dragon"
As both players are still responding to the summon of "Blowback Dragon", the Timing Window to activate cards like "Bottomless Trap Hole", "Torrential Tribute" and similar cards remains open. As such, Player B is legally allowed to activate the effects of "Torrential Tribute" and does so.

• Player B chains "Torrential Tribute"
• Player A does not respond
• Player B chains "Call of the Haunted" targeting "Sangan".

In other words, despite "Bottomless Trap Hole" and "Torrential Tribute" being activated as Chain Links 2 and 6 respectively, they do not "Miss the Timing" as both players are continuing to respond to the summon, and therefore the Timing Window remains open.

While I did not say it above, there are two additional steps which occur in the chain after Player B activates "Call of the Haunted", as follows:

• Player A does not respond
• Player B does not respond
At this point, the Timing Window to activate new card effects on this specific chain closes, and all card effects on the chain are now allowed to resolve.

The moment this occurs, the Timing Window to activate "Bottomless Trap Hole" and similar cards closes for that particular summon as the game state is now considered to progress beyond the summoning of that specific monster(s) (i.e the "Summon Response Chain" ends).

Although this did not happen in this example, if the following had occured, the Window in which cards can be activated during the "Summon Response Chain" closes, and neither player can respond to the summon of that specific monster:

• No Trigger Effects are activated by Player A.
• No Trigger Effects are activated by Player B.
• Player A chooses not to activate a card effect on priority.
• Player B chooses not to activate a card effect in response to the summon.

In this alternate example, neither player has initiated a card effect on the "Summon Response Chain" and so the chain resolves with no effect. Player A cannot then choose to activate "Torrential Tribute" themselves, as the "Timing Window" has been closed, and both players would now "Miss the Timing" to activate such an effect.
The Summon Response Chain Resolution
• Player A Summons "Blowback Dragon"
• Player A activates the effect of "Blowback Dragon" on priority.
• Player B chains "Bottomless Trap Hole"
• Player A chains "Interdimensional Matter Transporter" targeting "Blowback Dragon"
• Player B chains "Enemy Controller", Tributing "Sangan" as its cost and targets "Blowback Dragon"
• Player A chains "Book of Moon" Targeting "Blowback Dragon"
• Player B chains "Torrential Tribute"
• Player A does not respond
• Player B chains "Call of the Haunted" targeting "Sangan".
Example Chain: Resolution
Now that the "Summon Response Chain" has closed, it is time to resolve the chain.

As normal, the chain resolves backwards as follows:

Call of the Haunted Torrential Tribute Book of Moon Enemy Controller Interdimensional Matter Transporter Bottomless Trap Hole Blowback Dragon.

Chain Link 7 Resolves
"Call of the Haunted" resolves at this point, summoning "Sangan" to Player B's side of the field.

Chain Link 6 Resolves
At this point, "Torrential Tribute" destroys "Sangan", "Blowback Dragon", and all other monsters on the field excluding any that are unaffected by the effects of Traps (eg. "Elemental Hero Wildheart" or "Tenkibito Shien").

As "Sangan" was destroyed and sent to the graveyard by the effects of "Torrential Tribute" two additional effects are triggered/activated here:

• The Mandatory Trigger Effect of "Sangan", which will start a new chain once the current chain (the "Summon Response Chain") finishes resolving and -
• The Continuous Effect of "Call of the Haunted".
Chain Interruption (Continuous Effect)
Under normal situations, Chain Link 5 would now be resolved, however due to the destruction of "Sangan", the Continuous Effect of "Call of the Haunted" is now applied.

As a result, "Call of the Haunted" destroys itself as its target ("Sangan") was just destroyed. Once "Call of the Haunted" has been sent to the graveyard, the chain continues resolving as normal.

Chain Link 5 Resolves
At this point, "Book of Moon" now attempts to Flip "Blowback Dragon" face-down. However, as "Blowback Dragon" is no longer face-up on the field, the effect of "Book of Moon" disappears / resolves without effect.

Chain Link 4 Resolves
"Enemy Controller" now attempts to give control of Player A's "Blowback Dragon" to Player B. However, as "Blowback Dragon" is no longer face-up on Player A's side of the field, the effect of "Enemy Controller" disappears / resolves without effect.

As was stated previously, given the fact that "Sangan" was Tributed as the cost for activating "Enemy Controller", its effect was Triggered.

The effect of "Sangan" was Triggered when this card was activated, not during its resolution, however it is worth pointing out here so as to remind that its effect is still attempting to activate.

Chain Link 3 Resolves
"Interdimensional Matter Transporter" now attempts to Remove Player A's "Blowback Dragon" from play. However, as "Blowback Dragon" is no longer face-up on Player A's side of the field, the effect of "Interdimensional Matter Transporter" disappears / resolves without effect.

Chain Link 2 Resolves
"Bottomless Trap Hole" now attempts to remove from play all monsters with 1500 ATK which were summoned at the exact same time as "Blowback Dragon".

As "Blowback Dragon" was the only such monster, it attempts to remove "Blowback Dragon" from play. However, as "Blowback Dragon" is no longer face-up on Player A's side of the field, the effect of "Bottomless Trap Hole" disappears / resolves without effect.

Chain Link 1 Resolves
"Blowback Dragon" now attempts to destroy the Spell/Trap that was targeted by its effect. Although I never stated it in my example, lets assume "Blowback Dragon" was targeting the face-down "Bottomless Trap Hole".

As "Bottomless Trap Hole" is still face-up on the field due to the fact that any time a Spell / Trap is activated, it is not sent to the graveyard until the entire chain resolves (unless it is destroyed/sent to the graveyard by another card's effect).

As a result, Player A flips 3 coins. Lets assume his results are Heads, Tails, Heads.

As a result of this coin-flip, the effect of "Blowback Dragon" destroys the face-up "Bottomless Trap Hole".

Clean Up
As the current chain has now finished resolving, all face-up Spells & Traps (excluding Continuous, Equip, or Field Spells/Traps) that were activated during this chain are sent to the graveyard.

In this example, the following cards are sent to the graveyard during this step (order is irrelevant):

• Interdimensional Matter Transporter
• Book of Moon
• Enemy Controller
• Torrential Tribute
"Bottomless Trap Hole" and "Call of the Haunted" are not sent to the graveyard at this time, as both cards were destroyed by a card effect during the resolution of the chain.

While I am very familiar with the fact that most player's send cards to the graveyard at the same time they activate it, legally they are not allowed to do this for several reasons:

• The activated card remains face-up on the field, using up 1 of the player's Spell/Trap zones until it is removed as a Cost/Effect, or at the end of the Chain. This prevents a player from activating 6, 7, or 8 Traps and/or Quick-Play Spells by simply sending the card(s) to the graveyard when they are activated and therefore, having a "free" Spell/Trap Zone in which they could play a new card(s).
• The activated card may be counted, or otherwise affected by the effects of another card effect. For example: "Secret Barrel" will count your opponents face-up "Mystical Space Typhoon" or "Graceful Charity" in addition to all other cards in their hand and on the field. In addition, your opponents set "Dust Tornado" can target your face-up "Mystical Space Typhoon" with the intent of letting a player set a new S/T during its resolution.
In any case, by a strict reading of the rules, sending a card to the graveyard before this point can cause you to get a minor game infraction (Proceedural error), so its a good idea to get into the practice of keeping the cards face-up on the field until the "Clean Up" step.

New Chain
While Player A would normally be the one to start a new chain after the "Summon Response Chain" resolves, the mandatory Trigger Effect of "Sangan" which was triggered twice (once during the activation of "Enemy Controller" on Chain Link 4 and one additional time when it was destroyed by "Torrential Tribute" during Chain Link 6), and so starts a new chain (with 2 chain links) immediately after the resolution of this chain.

The reason that the effect of "Sangan" waits until this time for its effect to activate, is due to the fact that only a Continuous Effect can interrupt the resolution of a chain. If "Sangan's" Trigger Effect was an optional Trigger Effect, it would "Miss the Timing" as a result of this limitation.

However, as "Sangan's" Trigger Effect is a mandatory Trigger Effect, its activation cannot "Miss the Timing" and waits patiently until the first legal opportunity to activate, which happens now.

• Player B activates the Mandatory Trigger effect of "Sangan" (Chain Link 1)
• Player B activates the Mandatory Trigger Effect of "Sangan" (Chain Link 2)
• Player A can chain as desired.
• Player B can chain as desired.

(from: http://www.yugiohforums.com/showthread.php?t=75625 )


Last edited by yamikazi on Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: and also... Trigger Effects and SEGOC By Pharaoh Atem    Spell Speed EmptySun Jan 08, 2012 1:52 pm

Trigger Effects and SEGOC
By Pharaoh Atem



After each and every last change in gamestate, even during the application of separate parts of one larger combined effect while resolving a Chain Link, the game checks for all Trigger Effects whose triggers have been triggered.

First, we look to see if triggered effects were mandatory or not. If any were mandatory, we note that they must be activated, no matter what. This would be like Sangan or Dandelion. If any were optional, we note that they don't have to be activated. This would be like Mobius.

We then look to see whether or not it is legal to activate the Trigger Effect(s) in question at this very moment. Most of the game time does not make it illegal to activate Trigger Effects. If it is legal to activate, a mandatory effect must activate right here, and an optional effect will ask its controller "shall I activate".

If it is not legal to activate the Trigger Effect(s) at this very moment, a mandatory effect will wait for the very first chance it gets and automatically seize that chance, beating all other effects to the punch, while an optional effect will simply see that it cannot activate and won't wait around. This is how players "miss the activation timing" of their optional effects. Some times where it would be illegal to activate a Trigger Effect would be in the middle of Summoning Procedures, and in the middle of resolving a Chain Link. Note that if an effect specifies that it can activate during a normally-illegal time, it circumvents this rule; Chess Archfiends' effects activate during the resolution of a Chain Link.

In events where multiple Trigger Effects have been triggered and can legally activate, we refer to SEGOC. SEGOC is short for "Simultaneous Effects Go On Chain". It is a special rule made specifically because of how Trigger Effects are Spell Speed 1 (and thus shouldn't be able to Chain to one another), yet also have a knack for all wanting to activate at the same time. It's a way for them to let Trigger Effects get away with Chaining to one another.
_________________

This is where Black Whirlwind comes in. You control two of them: you thus control two cards with Trigger Effects. The effects are optional. Their trigger is the Normal Summon of a Blackwing to your side of the field. Let's assume that someone Normal Summoned a BW to your side; the Trigger has been met, and since there's nothing prohibiting Triggers after Summon Procedure is finished, activation is legal at this time.

So, both Whirlwinds tell you "I want to activate." Since they're optional, though, they wait for you to say "yes, go activate". But, before you give your answer to either, they see that they came to you at the same time; thus we have to handle this matter with SEGOC.

SEGOC shuffles effects into four groups, based upon effect controller and effect nature. The controllers can either be the Turn Player or the Opposing Player; The natures can be Mandatory or Optional.

SEGOC grants the right to activate to one group at a time; that group's controller handles the process. When multiple effects are in the same group, their controller determines the order in which they are placed onto the Chain.

The group order is as follows:
1) Mandatory Turn Player
2) Mandatory Opposing
3) Optional Turn Player
4) Optional Opposing

They're both optional Trigger Effects, and they're both controlled by you; this means that they're both going to still be shuffled into the same group, and they would go 3rd in the order of the situation. So, you choose which order they activate in.


In events where one Trigger Effect is triggered but cannot activate until a time where another Trigger Effect is also triggered and may activate immediately, the Trigger Effect triggered earlier activates first. This is similar to but unrelated to SEGOC. It's the reason why Tributing a Sangan to Tribute Summon a Monarch has the Sangan activate before the Monarch in all cases, even when the summoned Monarch's effect is mandatory and the Sangan's effect is controlled by the same player. Normally, since Sangan and a mandatory Monarch would both be mandatory effects controlled by the same player, they should seem to be in the same group; but Sangan's Trigger was Triggered first. Effects Triggered earlier are placed onto a Chain before effects Triggered later; SEGOC only functions for effects that are Triggered at the same time and want to activate at the same time.

(from: http://www.yugiohforums.com/showthread.php?t=75625 )
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